Listen to Neal’s most recent podcast guesting, an interview with Sakar Kawle of  Premium Cashflow

Using Data Analytics reg SubMarkets to Invest-In and Asset Management Advice

by Sakar Kawle and Neal Bawa

Sakar: Welcome to another edition of Premium cash flow podcast today, I have the pleasure of welcoming Neal Bawa to a podcast Neal is a data scientist who started in a big Way in real estate his company multifamily you specialize in educating; you know all the multifamily. And he invests and does syndications through his other company grow capitis.

Welcome to the show Neal.

Neal: Thanks, so much for having me on the show Sakar. Very pleased to be here. Thank you. Thank you. Give us a brief background Neal as to how your career started from it side and now begin to real estate. Well, I you know what happens with a lot of Technologies like me they when they’re.

In technology that are working 12 13 14 hours a day and they never really get a chance to get into real estate. And so, they start to diable by buying a single-family rental. So, if I was to line up a hundred Technologies here probably 98 of them would say yeah, I started with one single family rental.

Oh, my story is not like that. I actually started in Reverse so. In 2003, my bat my boss. Who was the CEO of the company that was running? It was a technology education business that added Healthcare education Beyond teeth after 2003. He asked me for help to build a campus from scratch. And this was basically a mixed-use campus.

It was half office and administrative and the other half was student right not student housing but students to come in during the day, so classrooms and it was. And Incredibly challenging projects that car. I mean I was in I was in absolutely terrified for nine straight months while we were building it that we would screw it up not build it in time get in trouble with the city get kicked out of our existing rental, July 4th 2004 was the last day that we were allowed to be in our building and our our landlord hated us.

So, you never wanted to. To it would not even allow a single day’s extension. So, imagine being terrified for nine months straight and and knowing that you were doing something that you had no competency in a no experience in and that’s what my state of mind was from September 2003 to July 2004. But in hindsight, it was an incredible learning experience to be to be in charge of building something from scratch.

That was a four and a half million dollar budget and to be able to get involved in every nitty-gritty to understand egress rules air conditioning air flow fire codes and 500 other things like that was incredible and at the end of it by the end of it I was like. This is great. I just learned something of incredible value and then I I urge my boss as soon as we ran out of space two years later.

Let’s build a bigger one. And so that one was thirty-three thousand square foot. It was a building behind us, but we didn’t have enough money to to actually buy and build that big of a space anymore because we’d already spent four million bucks two years earlier. And so, what we did was we basically did what you now call saqqara syndication.

I didn’t even know that word for the next three years after we built this building that we were doing the syndication. So, I broke broke pretty much every rule of syndication that the SEC has ever written because I didn’t simply know that something called syndication actually existed. We just talked to a bunch of doctors here in Fremont, California where the home of Tesla there were lots of lots and lots of doctors here it as part of the Washington Healthcare System, and we convinced them that we could take this.

Big 33,000 Shadow building and build it out and chop it up into two thousand square foot Suites and we would sell the sweets to them. So, they would have a share and then we would rent it back from them. Right. So, the business would rent it back from them. Right? And when we started doing this, we were like nobody is ever going to want to do this.

This is a stellar stupidest dumbest idea of all that it took us one day sakaar to sell out the whole project why because of something I know now that if you’re doing an existing project you charge a two to three percent acquisition fee, but if you do you construction project you charge a 5% development.

She didn’t know that anything. We want something from scratch for people and gifted it to them at cost. And so, it got sold out in a day and I was like, wow, I must be really smart know they were smart. They knew that I didn’t know what I was doing. They knew that they were getting something for free.

And so everything got sold out and then I rented it back from them as my business grew so the experience of building that second campus figuring out how to condominium eyes Office Buildings chop them up and do all of the ccr’s do all the different documents to make sure that the association was set up and nobody was opening a strip club or a fitness club in there.

Those kinds of things the learning was incredible and eventually after that I was like, you know when I sell my technology business, this is what I’m going to do for a living so

Sakar:  And is that I think I know a little bit of your background and you’ll now as we were discussing earlier is that kind of also gives you that confidence and rather that experience of new construction that now you feel that any new opportunity that comes perhaps even if it’s new construction, you can certainly take on given the right metrics of.

Neal:  Both yes, and no, so I’m going to answer that question to say yes, and no I’ve done so I did multiple new construction projects in my past technology career and I have built properties from scratch. I built a hundred- and two-unit apartment complex in Provo. That’s at a hundred percent occupancy for its apartments.

And then I’m also building a sick 55-million-dollar new construction 355-unit project in Buffalo. It’s no no. It’s next to the university. So why I’m doing this my answer to your question is still no because what I have learned is that you may know how to do new construction, but new construction requires thousands of systems processes and checklists and and very highly trained staff.

So, when I’m doing new opportunities on projects where I’m building in Phoenix, I’m building in in, Oregon. I’m building in in, Utah. I’m always working with a developer. But what’s nice is that he they can never bullshit me, right because I’ve already done four or five projects myself. Some of they say silly stuff.

I’m like no. No, this is obviously wrong. I’m not going to pay a million for this. I’m going to pay, you know, 200,000 so it helps greatly but I absolutely work with developers because they have the project management staff in the systems and processes, I’ve started seeing. People in our syndication World attempt to do new construction projects, especially an opportunity zones, which are extremely difficult.

And honestly, I have to tell you it’s a car the word disaster is written all over these projects in large font, because that you cannot move from being a syndicator to a developer in one jump it is not possible.

Sakar: True true. I think there’s a lot to learn and a lot of experience you need a new construction to pull off and I think as you indicated that partnering with experienced developer is the way to go because you as a Syndicate or you don’t want to risk the capital and you know, get a lesson on your back after two years or something so Neal.

Speaking of different submarkets and given this whole sort of tangent of opportunity zones that we have. How do you evaluate some of these submarkets? Like, you know, we know the key indicators and things like that and where I’m going with this also Neal, is that the Dallas the Austin the Orlando these are all very hot markets and the amount of capital.

That’s available now, right the prices are going very high. So, what and I know so certain, you know Keys indicators and operators are transitioning to some other cities where I think they see good value that they can drive. So, what is your methodology that how do your peace through all of this and select some of the cities for your syndication?

Neal: Firstly, I’m going to comment on what you just said. I do believe that the Tier 1 metros are getting very bubbly. Now. I do not believe that this is a 2008 type bubble. I think that’s values can stay inflated for a significant amount of time because the fundamental the underlying fundamentals of the economy are much stronger.

We’re not doing fraudulent loans. So, the values may stay inflated for a significant amount of time. But I am I’m an Indian. I’m very conservative by Nature. I’m not willing to pay a hundred thousand dollars a unit in Dallas or Fort Worth, right? So that that’s it. I maybe I may be doing a property there, but it’s going to be the exception to the norm right?

I’m not looking at you. Properties I love Orlando. I’ve been talking about it for three or four years and I should have jumped in three years ago when I knew it was an incredible opportunity, but generally I’m finding Tier 1 metros to be too expensive and what I’m finding is and I’m going to say something that you might just shut the whole podcast down right now.

It is my belief. That in 2019, right? Let’s not talk about what happened in the past because the past is the past if you invested great if you didn’t invest well tough luck to you but in 2019 the properties that are being purchased for syndication. My belief is only 20% of them will hit. 20% and the reason for that is you’ve had 14 successive quarters of cap rate compression.

So, cap rates are going down which means prices are going up through and you’ve also had interest rate basically increases not necessarily in a straight line. So we’ve had a huge increase in then then some you know in an adjustment but still an increase and you might say a lot of people tell me silly stuff like well Neal, it’s only gone up, you know from three and a half to four and a half.

Right now, or I would even say it’s gone up from more like for to 4.75. Right? Right, right. That’s only .75. No, it’s not. Please understand that the percentage difference between 4 & 4 .75 is 30%. Four point seven five is thirty percent higher right or almost 30 percent 25 percent higher than for so they’ve gone up 25 percent true, which is a big deal is it will be 25 if interest rates go up 25% and prices go up 40% your cumulative increase compared to three years ago is 70% 80% right?

That’s it. So., I doubt that there’s an area in the United States where rents have gone up 80% in three years. I don’t think there’s an area in the United States where rents have gone up 40% in three years, right? They might have gone up 20% in three years, but the cumulative effect of interest rate increases, and price increases is closer to 70 or 80%.

So, when I see that and I see people still projecting, you know, the same 15, irr 16 irrs. What they’re doing is they’re making the fit the famous, you know fallacy the famous assumption that the past is representative of the future. And it’s not it is absolutely not it is mathematically can be proven in ten minutes that that is not the case.

So, when you’re investing in these Tier 1 metros, you’re basically now being forced to assume the best in everything the lowest, you know, the highest income the lowest expenses, you’re forced to assume that there’s no recession coming in the next five years. There are all these assumptions and maybe all those assumptions you’re not going to win anything.

I mean, there’s there’s six to ten. Offers on every property if you’re not making those assumptions, either you’re a magician. Or you’re not winning anything there is no Third Creek case, right? I think I believe that even the very good ones that are afraid of what’s going on are still making those assumptions because otherwise they can’t possibly be winning anything.

My piece is this whole concept of I am buying these magical properties 20 percent below Market that nobody has access to is a fairy tale. And that’s very true. That’s very true. And and that’s why I asked that question Neal that I’m glad you said all these things that the all the lot of syndicators are forced to come up with these Rosy scenarios because that’s the only way that they can make their magic Excel sheets work.

Sakar: You’re absolutely right about. That and that’s why I was asking that question is that the Tier 1 cities are so expensive that people are forced to find Value in a you know light secondary cities. Like let’s say Pittsburgh’s of the world and things like that. So how do you go about making sense out of it?

And that was my second part of the question that. How are you finding the values City still has got to be those different indicators that you are perhaps looking at that? It’s almost like nobody’s looking at some of these cities and they have some sense of curve that some positive action that’s happening.

And could you maybe share some thoughts on that new

Neal: sure, but I think you’re at once again. You might not like the answer that I give you. I mean, I am not so. I’m a fiduciary of my investors money and the word fiduciary implies that my real job is not to make them money. My real job is to protect their principal true.

That is what my job is if I can make the money good, but my first job is to protect their principal. So, I take that part more seriously, even than taking the the making money part and what I’m finding is that. A lot of people because they’re frustrated with the Tier 1 metros being so expensive. They are now going into underperforming metros.

And while there’s some good metros out there on the under-performance side a lot more of them are actually going into much rougher area’s areas with no track record of growth. So, my feedback to the audience is simply this. Apply these five benchmarks and actually teach a free course on the internet.

Anyone anyone can watch it. It’s incredibly powerful at That’s udem / real Focus. I’ll type that in in here. So, you can you can you know have the exact URL up on the podcast page watch that because. Fundamentally, you want a certain minimum amount of population growth a certain minimum amount of income growth a certain minimum amount of home price growth a reduction in crime and a certain minimum amount of job growth.

I think that if you actually apply these five principles and have reasonable minimums you what you don’t want, you know, I hear people saying well, you know Pittsburgh this part of Pittsburgh has has a population growth. But as a city Pittsburgh has been losing population for decades. No, but it’s true that certain parts of the city, especially the ones close to the Carnegie Mellon University, which has a self-driving program that’s doing really well are are gaining.

But as a fiduciary, I’m not looking to invest Institute cities that are losing population. So that reduces the no I’m not saying that people are not making money there. Don’t don’t take me you mean that that investors are all losing money there notice plenty of projects there that will do really really well like cities for example that have been losing population very slowly like Cincinnati or like Cleveland slow population loss.

There’s plenty of opportunities people will make money but my job as a fiduciary. This to basically say I’m only going to invest where there’s Tailwind. So, this concept of heroin and heroin is very important to my investing, you know, typical airplane flies at 500 miles an hour. Okay you when you look at the demographics, right and go into a Metro that supports them what you have is a 200-mile Tailwind what that means is the net speed of your airplane is not 500.

Sakar: True

Neal:  When you’re going into an area that has the worst demographics. Let’s say like Detroit or North st. Louis true you are now looking at a 200-mile headwind your aircraft is flying at 300 not 500

Sakar: True.

Neal: That means is 300 miles an hour or 700 miles an hour, right?

Sakar: Absolutely … absolutely …

Neal: Ignore areas where the demographics are very sketchy, even though I know there’s plenty of money to be made there and people are making plenty of money. So, my Approach is. I want that minimum amount of population growth. I want that minimum on a job growth and whenever I do that whenever. I bought based on that like Vegas for example, right three years ago on these podcasts. If you Google, my name Neal bow on the internet and go back and watch some of my older stuff.

You’ll notice this guy talks a lot about Vegas. He talks a lot about Provo, Utah, right. Did he ever buy in Vegas yesterday everybody in Provo, Utah? Yes, and when did he buy many years ago right years and years and years ago. And now when you notice that on the job growth path you no charge today in 2019 Provo, Utah as always in the top.

In the u.s. Out of three correct thousand meters, right and las vegas, which I was talking about three years ago and people were laughing at me. I went out and bought a 20-million-dollar project there. Las Vegas consistently for the last nine months is the number one rent growth Metro in the United States.

The only one that comes close to that is Sacramento. So, when you look at those numbers’ right numbers, don’t lie when nothing was built being built in Clark County between 2008 and 2014 Clark County which is the seat of Las Vegas was still the fastest growing County in the US in terms of population.

So, when you have a county where thousands of new people from Los Angeles coming every year because they can’t afford to live in LA. Right, but there’s no new construction of any kind single-family multifamily because it crashed and burned so hard eventually you’re going to create a supply-demand gap and it took six years for it to build and then after that starting 2015 or late 2015 Vegas is wrench started to accelerate 1% a year growth than 2% then 4 then 6 now we’re at 8%.

Sakar: Wow. Wow…

Neal: and so that’s what the hell is that? That’s my feedback that go into metros that have tail when now tier 2 metros that have good Tailwinds may not be names you’ve heard of, but I can’t do anything about that, but I can tell you these are metros with Tillman. Athens Georgia is a Metro with Tailwind Dalton.

Georgia is a Metro with Talman Cape Coral Fort Myers Lehigh Acres Provo, Utah, Logan, Utah, Ogden, Utah Coeur d’Alene, Idaho. Spokane’s outspoken, Idaho, Olympia, Washington. These are tier 2 metros that have Tailwind why because number 1 capital is now flowing from their respective primaries Olympia.

He’s gaining from Seattle’s growth.

Sakar: I see no,

Neal: Colorado Springs is gaining from dirt from Denver’s growth. Right? So, every one of these metros has a primary Metro Provo is benefiting from Salt Lake City becoming a tier 1 Metro from a tier 2 metal recently got upgraded by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to a tier 1 up Metro.

So now you can go 75% LTV on that Metro write those things are important. Those are huge because.

Sakar: Absolutely

Neal: Be compressed. If you go from being able to do 65% that to 75 percent debt in a market immediately its cap rates are going to compress and guess what everything in a 50-mile radius is going to compress as well.

But the stuff in the 50-mile radius is not as expensive, right so you can basically benefit from that. So, in Provo, I wasn’t even able to buy because there was nothing to buy so I just built I built a hundred to unit together with my partners. And it’s been an incredible experience. So, my feedback is there are tier 2 metros all around the United States.

There are dozens of them. There are hundreds of them and for people that are afraid that this cycle will end there is no real estate cycle. There are 2200 real estate Cycles in the United States

Sakar: True and …

Neal: Some are late. You know New York is in the 10th inning of the cycle, you know, if you want to look at a nine-inning baseball game on New York’s in overtime, right?

Whereas whereas Vegas isn’t still in the fourth inning because it didn’t get started until 2016.

Sakar: Very true, very true. And my comment also on that Neal also is that multifamily being as insulated as it is, you know the delinquency and the default that protection that we always have I mean and early as you said rightfully is that.

The loans are so properly written under it. Now that the chances of a big 2008-2009 type of catastrophic we are probably not on the car. This is more of a slight correction. If any that happens than a big 2008 type of catastrophic there. So, moving on Neal the. Which during your asset management which are the key performance indicators you manage on a weekly or monthly basis are around your team

Neal: A lot more than most people do so, I think that traditionally Asset Management has been we do a 30-minute call with their property manager every single week. We sit down we have conversations with them. I’m finding that today. It is it’s not getting me to my It is just not happening because everything is priced to perfection even what I’ve been buying for the last two or three years is priced to Perfection, right?

I am not implying in any way that I have some magical off Market access and I’m buying 20 percent below market, right? Because that’s just the sales pitch right is, I’m paying market, right? Even when I’m out buying below Market most of the time the big Advantage, I have is I don’t have nine guys bidding against me.

Right, so I might be paying 3% under Market. I mean people who are saying I’m buying three percent on the marketing Market are probably credible. The one that says 10 or 20% before under Market probably doesn’t understand what he’s buying. So, when I’m buying, you know, it’s expensive stuff and it’s becoming very difficult to just do a 30-minute meeting.

As you know, I have an Army in the Philippines that are virtual assistants, you know, And I’m using my VA has to look at a whole bunch of metrics and key performance indicators that we weren’t looking at 18 months ago because we felt we didn’t have to but now we realize if you want to hit performa we have to so, for example, I challenge everyone that’s a syndicator that’s watching to put his hand on his heart and say.

I’m actually tracking my delinquency statistics in such a way that I know how many exact average numbers of days it takes for my property manager to remove a tenant. That is not being

Sakar: True.

Neal: No number right but here’s the key thing. Let’s say that it takes a month to evict people in your Metro.

You’re in an awesome Metro. It’s very landlord friendly takes a month. Right but aren’t you assuming that your property managers doing it in a month? They have you actually looked to see the last 27 people that they evicted. I’m just going to pick a number, right? Have you done it analysis on that to see from the day that that tenant went delinquent right on the fifth of the month?

I didn’t pay you posted the notice. He’s delinquent now, right? What was the day when he left and what was the number of days that was different when I have found to my absolute shock? Is that unless you are really on top of the property manager with a delinquency based report or statistic? The average property manager is actually taking at least 50% more time than it should take

Sakar: That’s powerful

Neal: And percent is huge massive..

Sakar: I mean add insult to the injury. They’re also Neal is that is just not the delinquency. It’s more also about you know, when you’re going to turn over when you going to like paint and rewrite the unit so you can start making the money. So, you got the delinquency. You got the truck, you know, turnover makeready costs and all your Leasing and marketing so really when you.

Shifting that unit into bringing into as I call as in Tom ready is still a lot more and I mean we experienced that in our portfolio that you know, we could be like advertising our units for couple of months before you get it rented. So, you’re absolutely right that those so what other metrics like delinquency would be one Neal sure.

Neal: Let me give you the second one. You actually mentioned it a second ago, right? So. You need to start tracking. That from the number the day that the unit became empty how many days actually took it for it to get rent ready and was that word rent ready real or fake? Sometimes? I find that what they mean by rent ready is they haven’t even cleaned it up.

They’ve just finished basically doing the upgrades, you know changing the floor or whatever it is. Do you have a parameter? There? Do you have anybody to have a virtual assistant basically with a Tracker saying you know when a unit becomes empty on the 5th of the month it on average is taking them 13 days.

To turn that unit if they’re not upgrading it and it’s taking them 19 days if they are upgrading, I’m making these numbers up. Yeah sure so firstly understand that because that is enormous amount of profit that is getting flushed down. I see too many people just focused on. Oh, what is my economic occupancy?

What is my physical occupancy my physical 95 my economics 92, I’m fine? No, you’re not fine. All of these hidden costs are what are really killing you you analyze not going to add up until you’re looking at these metrics, right? So, so here’s metric. Number one what you know, which for this which is how many days does it take for him to turn the unit right?

And then you need a metric for from the day that he starts showing the unit for the first time how many days on average does it take him to lease it up? What is the total number of days that it takes for him to lease it up? Because once you’re tracking these numbers, you’re going to know if you have a good property manager or not until then you can guess right, you’re just hoping for the best you don’t actually know because you don’t really know what he’s doing.

He might be saying to you. I’m at 92 or 93 percent occupancy. Here’s another question, right? I’m going to do some math here. So, this one’s a little dense. Give it 250 in a property.

Sakar: Hmm.

Neal: Okay on average. Let’s assume your tenant lives there for two years. Right doesn’t that mean that 125 units half of 250 are going to be empty each year right true.

So, if I divide that by months that roughly means that 10 and 1/2 units are going to become empty every month true, right? Mmm. So, if ten and a half units become empty and you have four weeks in a month. Doesn’t that mean that just to stay at the exact same occupancy that you already are not to grow just to stay the same you have to rehab and turn two and a half units a week.

Ten and a half units for weeks two and a half how many people are actually tracking to make sure that every week of the year at least two and a half units or turn for 215 or property because if they’re not no matter how much demand you have you could have people standing outside your door begging to let you let them in. You still are going to lose occupancy

Sakar: True.

Neal: I because turns dictate the speed at which you lease and because not enough people are looking at speed of turns or we call a minimum acceptable Benchmark of turns and and you know, here’s what will happen when you start actually tracking this number you’re going to hit two and a half.

Then you going to have two and a half and then you’re going to hit one and then two and a half and then one and then two and a half. So, what will happen is your, your property manager will try to convince you that they’re doing two and a half, but actually what they’re doing is they’re doing two and a half some weeks and they’re doing

Sakar: Not consistent

Neal: But do maintain your occupancy, you need to turn 10 and 1/2 units a month, which means you have to do two and a half every week and that’s what people are not tracking

Sakar: True and also it gets so difficult that you have to have systems and procedures in place that okay what you’re rehabbing?

What colors what carpet? I mean you. You got to have all that laid down so that it just becomes like as soon as the turn happens, you’re like doing it like clockwork. You know,

Neal: That that’s something that you have to do so car because you were managing your properties in my properties. I have a property manager.

So, I focus on Building Systems to checkpoint everything that they’re saying on a call of the property manager says no problem. We’re going to rehab to be three units a week. My job is not to go in and check to see if he has systems to do so my job is to check to see he did rehab the through units and

Sakar: That’s exactly what a right and that’s exactly what I was getting at Neal.

Is that making sure those systems are in place. So that things are happening. Basically, now one last question Neal speaking of va’s you are a big fan of using your VA has to do various. Task, could you maybe delve into details as to which parts of your business you are giving to va’s and how you’re leveraging va’s to do different activities for your business my all parts.

Neal: So, you know, we we have virtual assistants doing every single part of our business because our inherent philosophy is that there’s nothing magical about being an American. Right, there are smart people everywhere in the world troop and while a majority of the people that are working as virtual assistants on sites around the world Upwork online pH jobs.

Whatever those sites are majority are unfortunately mediocre. Or at best if you are willing to spend the recruiting time, which is an enormous amount of time that we spend to separate the wheat from the shaft. So, our rate is for every 250 profiles that be read on Upwork. We hire one employee. Wow 250 to one nine.

People are like, he’s crazy. Nobody should need to do this. But let me supplement that by saying but that one employee works for me for two years. I pay them six bucks an hour and that one employee. I would put up against a mid-level US employee any day of the week. Right because their computer science graduates, they worked on Upwork for five years.

They’ve worked with 50 employers what person in the u.s. Can you hire them to work with 50 employers that they have a 100% job approval rating on up work those kinds of people are very hard to find and then when you find them, they’re already employed? So, you have to chase them for a while. So, when we send requests to 250 people to interview every day, we only get 16 of them to actually agree.

I have 250 but if you do this all year round, you’re going to get all 250 because sooner or later their job will come to an end. So, we are we never stop recruiting. So, you know, when are we recruiting every day of the year?

Sakar: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. And so, you just a related follow-up on that Neal then within your business. Like how is your structure like meaning? What’s your office staff like and your VA staff like house that you hide?

Neal: So, our org chart is divided into groups. So, we have one team that’s doing opportunity zone. So that’s new construction. Right? So, and that team is all in the u.s. They have their own virtual assistants, but it’s primarily a US based team.

Then we have an operations team. We have a VP of operations. We have an operations manager and then the ops manager and everybody below them are all week. So, everyone’s a virtual assistant. We don’t believe in part timers. So, all of our vs work 50-hour weeks and they all work from 8 a.m. To 5 p.m.

Pacific and some of them also work on Saturdays. So that Ops group does all of the value are things that we don’t do that any that no others that we do that no other syndicator does we they generate twenty-five thousand ten and leads a month. They do reputation calling they do. They do delinquency calls; they check accounting for all of our properties.

They make sure that the weekly meetings with property managers are being held they help us right updates for investors. We don’t do quarterly updates for investors we do monthly and we do photos and videos. They help us gather those they help us do social media marketing so we can do Outreach to investors. And of course, there’s a there’s a group of them that are helping us find properties.

Sakar: I see, I see,

Neal: so there I mean as far as I know there’s no. Part of our company that isn’t extremely heavily influenced by use a virtual assistants now,

Sakar: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. I mean we use va’s ourselves as well. But I know you are such a force using in so extensively that’s why I asked.  And within your multifamily you which is the education arm as well. I assume it’s the same as a lot of activities are also done by va’s like especially the education webinars and all the graphics and things like that. I would imagine

Neal: All of that. I mean if you look at multifamily that’s multifamily followed by the letter You are immediately going to be struck by. Oh my God, these guys do a hundred webinars here. So, in the last seven days we’ve done for webinars. And those four webinars had about 2,000 people enrolled why 2,000 people were enrolled in those webinars everything from the graphics to the descriptions to the promotion to the sending out of the emails to the recruiting of those people to making sure that their mics are working and they were ready for the events the dryer runs for the webinars.

All of it was handled by webinar what bye-bye are va’s and and was supervised by US based staff. But our model this year has changed where we have stopped thinking us staff has to supervise Filipino staff. We’ve now switched model where our managers are in the Philippines. So, we’ve started promoting managers and director level people in the Philippines. So even the people that are supervising are from the Philippines.

Sakar: I completely agree with you like someone who’s talented and equally equipped can do lots of things. It’s been a pleasure Neal. I greatly appreciate your insights. I would love to dig into some separate topics as well as perhaps. I had a future edition of her podcast. Please share with everyone how they can reach you.

Neal: Well, I’m very available. So firstly, those hundred webinars a year that we do these are all in all sorts of different multifamily and single-family topics there at multifamily That’s multifamily followed by the letter my most popular demographic course, which is a mind-blowing course is that that’s udemy / real focus and anyone can send me an email at Neal that’s any Al that’s the Irish spelling any L at. Multifamily that goes directly to me. I read all of my email. You’re welcome to connect with me. Those are of you that are interested in passive investment. You know, you’re welcome to come talk with me one on one and I’ll tell you a little bit more about how we use demographics before purchase and how we use systems and virtual assistants after Purchase to boost our returns

Sakar: Awesome. Awesome. Thank you Neal and it’s been a pleasure you added such a great value in on the Practical aspects of it.